Podcast: Mark C. Crowley Talks Fallout from the Great Resignation

November 17, 2022
  • Brent Stewart
  • Brent Stewart
    Digital Strategy & Barry-Wehmiller的内容主管

推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜首先采访了马克·C. Crowley in May of 2021 when people were starting to return to the office amidst a global pandemic that transformed the remote work paradigm in 2020

Around that same time, something called the Great Resignation was happening and just starting to garner attention. 据BBC报道, in 2021 an average of nearly 4 million people left their jobs each month.

The report goes on to say: “Experts suggest that two factors are fueling this trend. 而大流行则是导火索, the seeds of the Great Resignation were sown well before – and until the deep-rooted factors causing workers to quit are addressed, 辞职不太可能平息.”

Mark is a consultant, speaker, fellow podcast host and author of the book, Lead From the Heart: Heart-Based Leadership for the 21st Century, which has been recently re-released in a new edition with 内容几乎是以前的两倍. 你可以找到更多关于马克的信息, 他的书和播客 at his website.

On this week’s Truly Human Leadership podcast, Mark and I talk about the state of the workforce since the Great Resignation began, 如果它还在发生, how leaders should respond and other issues brought about by this long-simmering reckoning.




Mark Crowley:

Well, anybody who was speculating that this great resignation was going to be a one and done has been proved wrong, right? So, this has been an enduring thing ever since we got together, as I suspected it would be. In fact, 其实是很多年前的事了, 在我书的第一版里, I wrote there's going to be an inevitability where people are just going to say, "I'm not willing to accept this as an exchange for work any longer.“而且花了更长的时间, and I never could've imagined that it would be a global pandemic that would tip the world into acting this way. But when I started to see that record numbers of people were quitting every month, 我是最后一个感到惊讶的. It just seemed completely aligned to what I expected. So you had two years of people that were working from home with plenty of time where they weren't commuting, and they had opportunity to start thinking about, “我的梯子在右边的墙上吗? 我在合适的公司工作吗? 我的工作做得对吗? 顺便问一下,我的老板呢?"

And so, of course, when we deployed people to their homes for the first time, you had a lot of bosses just thinking that it was business as usual, like no change. 只是因为你在家工作. 这是唯一的变量. And they didn't realize that no, people were competing for computers, desk space. They had children at home doing remote learning. 你有年迈的父母. You had to immerse yourself in their lives in order to manage them. And a lot of people were like, "I don't want that. Just get me my report by eight o'clock, and everything's fine."

And so you call them at nine o'clock in the morning, 孩子们在尖叫, and you're like, "Hey, 我现在就得跟你谈谈." And the managers who kind of figured out that, "Hey, is this a good time to talk? Maybe you want to call me back in 15 minutes when you get that squared away?" those were the ones that made a difference. But the ones who just acted as if nothing was different, 人们看了就说, "This is not good. I don't want to work for somebody who doesn't see me as a human being and doesn't really care about me, who doesn't really want to make some accommodations for the challenges that I'm facing by working at home."

And so, the big picture is, coincidentally, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜说的是11月, and the September JOLTS report just came out, and we have... I think I saw a statistic that said that like 90% of the top CEOs in the country believe that we're heading in for not just a recession, 但是严重的经济衰退. And so, the next step of that is that a high percentage of them are saying, “推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜最终可能不得不裁员." So when you put that information out there, 然后是思考的人, "I don't really want to stay in this company, 我不想再为这个老板工作了. 我想做些改变,“你可能会认为这会被压制下去, right, that people would say, “我负担不起, because I'm going to be the first one let go if I'm the new guy." And instead, we only saw a very small decline. I think it was still 4.1 million people quit their jobs in September, and 4.2 a month earlier.

So, people were willing to take a shot and go somewhere else, because they're just so unhappy. So, I think, just the summation of your question is that the great resignation is our report card for how effective we've been managing people. And until we change how we're managing people and truly reinvent it with a completely different philosophy, I think you're just going to see it continue, even when... I think a great recession might make things a little bit more difficult for people to move as quickly, 因为工作机会将变得越来越少. 但不管怎样, I think people are deciding that life is too short to work for either a boss or a company or both that just doesn't fundamentally value them as a human being first and foremost.

Brent Stewart:

Well, 你刚才说的, it reminds me of something that you tweeted the other day, 有趣的是我看到了这个, 因为推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜刚来了个朋友, Lynne Twist, on the podcast, and she and I talked a lot about Buckminster Fuller and his influence on her. And you had recently tweeted a quote from him that says, "We never really change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." So with what you were just saying, at this point, how do we build a new model in business? Because the current one is so entrenched in our society and our culture, in our economic system. Even with the great resignation, the existing structure is still very much in place. So how does that get blown up, and how does that get built anew?


So I love that you pulled out that quote, because that quote just makes me smile every time I see it. And there's a little hidden story behind that in the sense that anytime I see something with Buckminster Fuller, I'm reminded of Amy Edmondson at Harvard Business School who worked directly for him when she got out of, I'm not sure whether it was her master's or PhD or where it was in the scheme of things, but she actually worked for him before he died. But the ideas that we need a new model but nobody's willing to embrace it is not lost on me.

And I love your word entrenched, because I think it's not just entrenched. It's part of the foundation that we think that the model of leadership is to pay people as little as possible, 尽可能多地从他们身上挤出来, keep them under some level of fear and intimidation. We think this is what's going to drive people's performance. And so, I really think that there are companies that are hurting. There are currently, even now, more job openings than there are people applying for jobs. So that means the companies are really struggling to find not just people to fill positions, 而是合适的人来填补职位. 在某个地方, there have to be enough companies that are looking and saying, “推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜要怎么做才能止血呢??"

Just the other day, I was reading something that said that there's evidence now that managers are afraid to have any difficult conversation with an employee, like confront any performance problem because they're afraid that it's just going to be another person quitting and leaving, 这样他们就会陷入孤立无援的境地. 所以推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜实际上是朝这个方向. We're just not going to manage people, because we don't want them to leave. And I'm saying, "Okay, well, alternatively, why don't you take a look at how you're managing and what people don't like about it and maybe fix those things?"

So the first thing I would say to anybody from HR that's listening to this is there are two things you can do. By the way, I used to think this was going to be a top-down thing. I thought CEOs would see the science that I'm talking about and realize, "Wow, the guy's giving us a formula for changing how we lead." But even with them, they're like, "Well, why would I have to change? I'm the CEO of the company, and I've been successful. The people working for me have been successful. 所以推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜为什么要接受新事物呢?"

So that's been the resistance that's been going on, and now I'm saying, "Well, 它是自下而上发生的. People are telling you whether they're applying or not applying, staying or not staying, 他们是否喜欢你的文化. And if you want to attract really great people and keep them, you're going to have to do something different." And I think there are many CEOs that are figuring this out. I had Bill George on my podcast just a couple weeks ago, and he's obviously a fellow at Harvard Business School, 在那里教了20年书, and he said, "The people I talk to, 我圈子里的人, CEOs, 他们同意了. They know that they're going to have to make that shift."

所以这需要时间. 你必须首先接受它的理念. And so, I think the first thing that I would ask HR to do would be to start to measure where turnover's coming from, by manager, because the likelihood is they're principally responsible for it. It's not the company. It's largely how people feel they're being treated, cared for, and supported, 或者正好相反.

So start there. 我会做季度调查. 这是我从谷歌学到的. Karen May told me this. She goes, “推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜每季度进行一次调查, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜问人们一个问题, 'Would you recommend your manager to other Googlers?'" And I just love that. It's so binary, and it gives you such an immediate feedback that is so usable. 你开始看,然后说, "Well, what's going on with the managers where no one wants to recommend them?" And so, explore it. Go interview employees. 你为什么会推荐你的经理? What's something that we might be able to coach this manager on? And then you start to work with those managers, ideally elevating the percentage of people saying, "Yes, 我一定会推荐我的经理,“但点名这些行为, "Here's what we're seeing consistently in the managers that aren't being recommended. These are the kinds of behaviors that we're seeing." We want to work with those managers to get there, but we want everybody else to understand what true north looks like, if you will.

And then, you obviously have to weed out the people who are unwilling to make those changes. So, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜正在寻找的变化, we know, consistently, 数据一次又一次地证明了这一点, that people want to work for a boss that cares about them personally, that supports them, 这让他们感到安全, that's appreciative, that grows them, develops them, all of those things. So that's the formula. But the binary question is, do you recommend them? Well, you start to work with these people that aren't getting recommended and elevate their performance or have somebody else take their job.

The other thing that I would suggest is that, and this is a higher hurdle for some managers, 因为我觉得恐惧依然存在. 你听到了“心”这个词, you immediately associate it with all kinds of softness, and, “这将给推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜带来麻烦. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜更关心人, the more you're going to take advantage of us, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜不会达到推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜的目标," all that mythology. But what I would suggest is that you start asking people... Like, in other words, the only people that you hire for any management position, management meaning supervising other human beings, that there's a requirement that they demonstrate that they actually care about other people, 这不仅仅是关于他们自己, that they thrive in the success of other people, 他们想要帮助别人成功. 他们不会因为成功而受到威胁. They're advocates. They're coaches.

And the way to do this, interestingly enough, is simply to ask them. 所以如果我说,“嘿,你在你的...?“所以你是候选人, 我在面试你, and I say, "In your career so far, has there ever been anybody that you intentionally helped support to grow from the position that you were either hiring them into or began managing them in and intentionally helped them grow into a promotion or maybe even two promotions? 你曾经这样做过吗?当然,他们会说:“嗯,是的。. 哦,是的,我绝对会这样做. Sure I do." And then you go in for the punch, which is, "Okay, great. So, tell me the names specifically of these people. 给我两三个例子, and then tell us what their job was and what you did specifically to help them grow in their careers and get onto the next promotion." And then, you're generally going to get, "Oh, well, I..." And you identify that those people didn't do anything to help other people, 因为他们不为别人着想.

我称之为关爱基因. 这是盖洛普告诉我的... 吉姆·哈德曾经告诉过我, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜在一起写一篇文章, and he said, "Because you know, there's only about 30% of the population of the world that really would align to what you're talking about.我说:“你是什么意思??他说:“不,推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜知道这个。. Most people are just focused on their own growth, their own success, their own careers, their own recognition. 他们并不真正关心别人." So it's almost not surprising that 30% of American workers are engaged, because just like through natural distribution, 30% of the population, 30%的管理者都有这种关爱基因. So we need to be looking for people who not only know how to drive performance, 但也要表现得像个教练, like somebody who really wants to help the team do well without being so self-focused that people can feel that they're competing with their boss or their boss is holding them back.

应该是这样的, so if I'm a CEO and I'm seeing millions of people are quitting and I have tremendous number of unfilled positions and the people that I'm attracting are not the people that I need, 他们没有技能, they're not who I want, 但我很难找到工作, 我在看这个, and I'm saying, "This is probably a result of our culture and how we're managing people." So I believe that they then should be going and saying, "We need to reinvent our culture in a way...“这并不意味着要把它炸了. It just means, "How do we refine it in a way that we tell people that these are the values that we're looking for, like this is the behavior that we want our managers to live to?"

And so, I remember, in the course of my career, that I worked at... My very first job out of college, it was a savings and loan... 如果你愿意的话,它实际上是一家银行. But they were in the business of just basically attracting deposits and selling mortgages. 这就是他们所做的一切. And they realized at some point that that was no longer going to be viable, that they couldn't make enough money to survive. And so, they started to become more sales-oriented. 他们开始培训员工, 他们在分支网络中的人, 所以当顾客进来的时候, they just didn't say, "Oh, you want a CD? Okay, here's your CD." They'd say, "Oh, while you're here, I noticed you don't have your checking account with us, and by the way, 你上次再融资是什么时候? 你的信用卡呢?" And so they're having an engaged conversation with people, and they're being taught how to do this.

Well, when you ask people to suddenly start selling when you've never done that before, 这是一个小小的障碍. So you have to say, "Hey, we're all on a journey together here. We're all new to this. This is where we have to go, and we're going to train you, and we're going to coach you. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜会教你怎么做. We're going to give you time to learn it, but we need you to get there."

And that's kind of the model for what we need to do here. You just can't tell managers, "Start being caring," and expect anything to happen. There has to be a system, like a redefinition of... 增加价值,如果你愿意的话. So, 如果你把关心加到你的价值观中, then the CEO could go out to the managers and say, “这对推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜来说是一个新的价值. We need to be much more caring of our employees, and we're going to hold you as a manager accountable for that. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜想在你身上看到这样的行为. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜不仅想在你身上看到它. We want your employees to tell us they see it in you." And this is how cultures change, so it's not like this can't be done.

And so, 只是为了把它固定下来, while it's being forced from the bottom vis-à-vis the great resignation, the way for this to happen is for CEOs and chief human resource officers, chief talent officers, 那些身居要职的人会说, “推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜现在要转向. We're going to align ourselves to the new reality, which is this is what it's going to take on our part to attract and retain great people."


Because these current systems that we have now are so entrenched. What stops the C-suite? What stops the board? What stops activist investors a little ways down the road, either into a recession or just far enough out to where maybe things have rebalanced? What stops them from going back to the way things were?


我想部分原因是,如果你一直... 所以你是一个高级领导. You're probably somewhere between 45 and 60, right, in that era, right? So you've already had 20, 25, 30 years of experience. You're long in the tooth in terms of how you operate. So the premise that, "Hey, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜需要改变管理人员的方式," doesn't really resonate with someone who's successful and made it to the top. 然后,他们开始比较... talking about, what you talk about, in terms of evolving how we manage. And I think they go into a, "What if it doesn't work? 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜需要达到推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜的目标. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜需要达到推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜的目标, and we can't afford to go one quarter and find out that by caring for people, 人们停止工作, people stop producing, and we have to go to Wall Street and our investors and say, 'We had this horrible experiment that backfired so terribly.'"

A couple years ago, I spoke at one of the most well-known insurance companies, 这是他们的高级管理团队. 他们来自全国各地. And so, 当我写完论文的时候, 全国销售经理站了起来, and he said, "You know what...他就是这么说的. He goes, "You know what you've just shared with us is absolutely brilliant and spot-on, right?"

我觉得他不是故意陷害我的, but then he said, "I got to tell you, if I'm the national sales manager and if we are midway through a quarter and we're not on target, my natural instinct, and will continue to be even after hearing your presentation, 是去恐吓和恐吓吗. 原因是它有效. 当我威胁别人说, 如果你没有达到目标, 你可能不会得到好的评价, 如果你的评价不好, that puts you on the list for layoffs or termination or fire and brimstone,' whatever it is, I'm going to that.他说:“你觉得怎么样??" And I said, "Well, obviously, 你没在听我的演讲, because you would've never asked that question, because putting people into fear is the most destabilizing. It's actually the opposite of giving people support to put them into their optimal level of performance.“但推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜认为这是要走的路.

And then, unfortunately, we still have this major lean into shareholders being the principal stakeholders for companies. So the CEOs, 我让谁来推动变革, are also hearing from their shareholders saying, 不用直接说出来, "We don't really care about what you do for your employees. What we care about is that you hit your numbers.“所以有这种压力, "If I'm too nice, if I'm too caring, if I'm too supporting, 这将会适得其反, 我就要失业了.“所以存在着所有的紧张关系.

And yet, there are so many companies that have demonstrated that this is the right formula, that... 我不知道要付出什么代价, 如果需要更多的辞职, 更难找到人. 有些人已经在研究这个了. 比尔·乔治证实. There are CEOs that are already moving in this direction trying to change their cultures. 然后会有这些电阻, which is like, "This is bullshit, and we don't need to be leading from the heart. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜不需要关心别人. People get paid a job. 他们会拿到工资的. We'll give them a raise if they do a good job. We'll give them a bonus if they do a good job, and we get rid of them if they don't. That's our deal." And there's going to be CEOs that are going to think like that, but those aren't the people that I'm trying to influence, because they're going to have to suffer greater pain before they come to their senses.


我还想问你一件事, I think it's probably a good idea for you to make this distinction. Tell us what the difference is in leading from the heart and being a heart-led leader.


I want to just... Now I'm going to embarrass myself here, but I want to hug you for asking that question. It's such a great question, because I hate the expression... Let me backtrack and clean off the whiteboard. I don't agree with the expression heart-led leader, even though nobody has been talking about this longer than I have, right, in the sense that the idea of leading from the heart is something that I've been sponsoring and advocating for for the last dozen years, and publicly. And the idea is that, 我认为是为了说服ceo们, 就是推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜一直在说的那些人, 或者任何高层领导, 甚至是很多经理人, that this makes sense, is to get them out of the belief that the heart is a soft, weak, sentimental, Valentine heart, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜所有的幻想, 像心就像氪石.

所以我想改变这种心态, because what I'm really talking about is the science of the biological heart, 不是情人节的心, not the romantic heart, but there's science that shows that the heart actually plays a significant role in influencing our choices and our behaviors, that feelings and emotions drive our behaviors. And so, if that's the case, then we basically need to basically reinvent how we're approaching leadership, 知道这是生物学的真相.

But the idea of a heart-led leader, on its surface, implies it's all about the heart. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜必须小心... What I'm saying is, it's a balance between the heart and the mind. 这不是非此即彼. We've been managing with the brain alone, which I think is what gets us into trouble. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜不考虑对人的影响. We lay off people because we think it's going to help us hit our quarterly numbers, and we don't understand that we've just polluted our workforce with fear. They're thinking, "Well, I'm going to be the next guy let go, so why should I be loyal here?" We're not thinking that way, and those thoughts don't come from the mind. 它们来自内心.

But at the same time, managing a business still requires us to use our minds. We still need to use data, and we still need to make hard decisions. And so, it's a balance between the two that I'm really striving for. 我的书... You could say, "Well, your book is called Lead from the Heart, so aren't you hypocritical?" And I'm saying, "No, because we have no heart in the way we lead today." And so I'm saying that's the missing component, is the care and the empathy and even compassion, things that have historically sounded ridiculous and soft, that I'm saying actually have an enormous impact on people. 但不可能全是这些. So you can't just be thanking people and appreciating people all the time and developing them and growing them. You still have to hold them accountable for performance.

我用一个标点符号, which is that if you went up to people who used to work for me over long period of years, 25 years, 在我管理和说的每一个层面上, "Well, what's one word you would use to describe Mark Crowley, your former boss?" You would think, by now especially, that they would go, "Oh, he's the heart guy. He's all heart. 他只关心内心." That's the word. And yet, if you went to them, 他们真正会告诉你的是, "He's the most demanding manager I ever worked for."

So you'd go, "Well, how could you reconcile that with being the heart person?" And the way that I reconcile it is that, A, I'm competitive. B,我的表现得到了奖励. Leadership is a job about driving results, so I'm all with that. 但如果我要支持别人, making them feel safe, 故意让人们感到安全, 致力于他们的发展, making personal accommodations to support whatever going on in their life that might be challenging, as simple as giving them extra 15 minutes to come in late so that they can take their kids to school. 如果我能做到的话, 我会做出让步的, 因为这让人感觉很好, 他们对此心存感激. I'm going to do all of those things and appreciate people and have a team of people that will support them. 所以我非常重视合作. I'm all about mutual support, having each other's back, creating this fantastic environment.

My belief was, if I'm going to do this when nobody else is doing this, 那么我就提升了他们的潜力. So I used to just say, "Look, we're not going to be mediocre here. This is our lives. So if we're going to be doing this and I'm going to support you in these ways, 我觉得推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜应该把目标定得更高." So we used to set, I used to set, our goals significantly higher than what everybody was doing or asking, higher than what the company was asking us to do, but also, 其他人都打算这么做. 没有人把目光放在它上面. 这就像是,“你想要X,推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜就会得到X。.我说:“不,还是X + 20%吧。."

一开始,我的经理说,“20%? That's ridiculous. 你怎么能要求推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜这么做?" And I just said, "Well, just build a plan, just see if you can come up with ways to do this." And they started looking at it, and they were like, "Yeah, we can do that." So we used to just blow everybody away because we set our sights from the very beginning on achieving something far greater, and we only would've done that if I hadn't built the foundation of support, with all the multilayers of things that I was doing to make sure those people felt like they were working for the right person at the right time and the right job and the right company.


What do you see right now in terms of where we are in being hybrid or being remote? What's working? What's not working? 你现在在想什么?


When we first started going back to the office, I wrote an article for Fast Company that several people misinterpreted. And what I said was that we should not be considering full-time remote work. It's not a good idea. And people wrote me... 我唯一一次收到恐吓信, 人们给我发信息说, “你是公司的托儿, and you're just advocating for CEOs who want us to go back." And I said... Right? 我只想回去,然后离开, "Go back and read it, 你会发现我是混合动力车的拥护者," so this is, what, 18 months ago, whatever? 所以我当时是混合动力汽车的倡导者. But what I was saying was that it's not good for us as human beings to be remote all the time. And the counter-argument that I got from people was like, "I have friends, and I have family, and I'm with my kids, and I'm with my spouse, 所以我因为没有互动而受到伤害."

But there's really science that shows that actually, that's not the case, that particularly, like if you're working from home five days a week, you're at your desk, you're on a computer, 你没有与其他人互动, 你真的错过了一些东西, really important. 人与人之间的联系,归属感得以实现... I know this is going to sound completely crazy, but it's true. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜的心需要与他人联系. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜需要和其他人在一起. And so, this is also very much aligned to everything that I think about all the time, 那是推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜的心吗... Our minds tell us, "No, no, I can work from home. I can work from home effectively, and I'm going to get all the connection I need." What I'm seeing happening right now is that people's hearts are telling them, "You know What?" Excuse me. “我想念在办公室的日子. 我想念和人们在一起的时光.“所以这就像是一种孤独, 哪个是推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜身体发出的信号, “你必须走出去和人们在一起, because being alone and being solo all the time is not good for you."

There's also science that shows that it's the microconnections. So I run into you in the hall, and I just say, "Hey, how you doing? 你看了上周的比赛了吗?“因为我知道你喜欢足球. We have a five-second conversation, and I move on. You move on. I go an hour later, 我走进自助餐厅, 还有在自助餐厅工作的人, and we have a conversation about what the special is, 但是推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜有一个互动, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜知道这一点, those add up into something really meaningful for us.

So, what I think is happening is that you still have people that say... I'm very interested in working remotely and people who move their families and moved away. People in technology, I think they have an easier job, or easier time. There's less interaction in their lives normally in the way that they do coding and programming and those kinds of things. But for most people, the best solution, I believe, is hybrid. 我认为能够在家工作... 我在家工作,我喜欢这样. I absolutely love it. But when I get an opportunity to go speak or consult, I'm so happy just being with other people that I realize I'm an introvert and an extrovert all at once. 我想是不是所有人都是这样, what is true of all people is that we really need to be with other people. And you just can't do that if you're working remotely five days a week.


Let's talk for a second about the new version of Lead From the Heart. 给推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜讲讲吧. Tell us what people can expect from it and why you decided to put out a second edition.


The original premise of the book was that we have misinterpreted human beings in our approach to managing them in the workplace and that our theories of leadership go back well over 100 years ago to the Industrial Revolution when people, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜当时相信, at least, 他们真的不想工作, that the work was hard, and that the way to get them to work was to tell them that they were going to be paid and that they would get perhaps a little bit more pay if they produced more than we expected, 在一天的过程中, we were going to make sure that we kept the flame underneath you the entire time. So, we also wanted to pay you as little as possible and squeeze as much out of you as possible, simply based on the premise that that would make owners more profit.

So, 对人们来说,工作是一种糟糕的经历, and they accepted it, simply because they needed to put a roof over their heads and food on the table, 这就是解决问题的方法. And so, people had to basically take whatever was offered to them. And so, we've just basically continued this whole philosophy for over 100 years and never really looked at it to say, "Have things changed? Has anything changed? 这仍然是正确的事情吗?“事实是,人们想要工作. People, 他们不仅想工作, 这已经不仅仅是工资的问题了, 人们想要被它填满. They want to grow in it. They want to do something meaningful and significant, and they want to work with people that they can work well with, so this is their lives in the way that they see this. So people were fundamentally changing for decades in terms of their aspirations of work and what would make them happy and content and engaged at work, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜被这种古老的哲学所困.

So, there's that, but then, 当我最初写这本书的时候, I'm also saying something else profoundly different, which is that we're not the rational people we think we are. Descartes said, "I think, therefore I am," and we believed him for a long, long time, over a century. And we now know that that's simply not the case, that there's a... Antonio Damasio, 他在索尔克研究所的时候, 写了一本书叫《笛卡儿的错误, where he proved that intelligence is actually distributed through the body, not just in the brain, and that we are actually driven mostly by feelings and emotions. And there's many, many other researchers from all sorts of academic levels that have come out with a similar premise, but basically confirming that we're not really that rational, that feelings and emotions drive up to 95% of our behavior, and then we use our minds to rationalize the feeling.

这也与达马西奥和其他人的工作有关, I've discovered that the heart actually plays a role in all this, 心灵和思想是相通的, that the heart is sending more information to the mind than the other way around, and that the constant circulation of feelings and thought are basically driving all of our behavior all the time. So when I say, "lead from the heart," I'm saying we're affecting people in the hearts because that's what's driving their behavior. So that was the original premise of the book. 还有书名, Lead from the Heart, 会让商界人士很不愉快吗, 因为他们马上想到, "He's got to be soft. 这家伙没有生意. He's a religious nut. He's a spiritualist. 这里有问题. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜没有用心去做领导."

所以,我要做的是... 有趣的是教育. The book's being taught in now 10 universities, so education figured it out quickly. Business resisted it, simply on the title alone. So, what I decided to do was to start writing articles. 我为《快公司》撰稿, and then I started a podcast and all of this so that people could hear me talk about this and hear these ideas or read these ideas and start to realize over time that, "Hey, maybe my resistance to this is not appropriate. Maybe I need to dig into this a little bit more."

But in the process, what happened was the people that I was talking to... I'm interested in learning from people who were talking about something that's going to support this thesis. So that's the common denominator of all the people that I've had on my podcast. 所以我从他们身上都学到了东西. So, one other component of this was that my publisher came and said, "Do you know...?“这是一年前的八月, so 14, 15 months ago, "Do you know that your book sold more copies last year than it did in the first eight?" And I said, "No." And they said, "We think the world is ready for your message now, completely ready." And they said, "If you can write it in 100 days, we'll publish it, a second edition." So I wrote it in 75, because I've just been marinating in this ever since the first edition. 这就是答案.


So what do you think for the next couple years? 你觉得会怎么样...? Do you think the great resignation is going to continue, even if there is a recession? What are you thinking about how we're going moving forward?


None of us know what's coming in terms of the economy. There's just so many weird variables with wars going on and polarized politics and "Is China going to invade Taiwan?" We have all those kinds of issues going on, but we also have seen mortgage rates double. 利率一直在上升. Inflation is eating... 昨天刚花了120美元给我的车加满油. 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜面临各种各样的挑战. So, 很明显,明年, 接下来的几年, 从经济角度来看, are going to be more difficult than what they've been. Money is more expensive, all those kinds of global kinds of challenges that we're faced with. 经济将会放缓.

But if I'm a CEO and I'm running a company in a difficult time, I'm going to want really good people to work for me to get us through that, and I'm certainly not going to want people to leave. So, 其他公司正在观望并说, “我仍然需要在这里找到优秀的人才, 因为推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜正面临逆风, 我需要一些人帮助推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜到达那里." So there's still going to be this tension in companies where if you're not really truly caring about your people, there's always going to be the option for some other company to come in and say, "Hey, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜可能解雇了一些人, 但推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜还是需要像你这样有才能的人, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜希望你能来这里, and we're going to give you X in terms of compensation, but we're also going to give you these other things," and those other things are the things that they're looking for.

So, 如果我看着一个CEO说, "Well, it's all hands on deck, 推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜要利用推荐全球十大博彩公司排行榜的人, and that's how we're going to get through 接下来的几年," I'm saying, "You're going to get spanked by the universe for thinking that way." So, in other words, this is the moment that you're going to want to change. This is the moment that you're going to want to say, "We want to create an environment where no one wants to leave and everybody wants to come, 因为这就是微分. If we can build a team of people who love being here, who are committed to the work that we're doing, those are the people that are going to get us through, create the stability, create the interest, create the support."

And those are the companies that are going to thrive in this economy. And the thing is that it's so unpredictable and so uncertain that when you're working in an ambiguous period of time that we're living in right now, the last thing you need is a whole lot of disruption in your workforce. You don't want 10, 15, 20%的员工辞职了, because it's just so much of a drag on how the businesses operate.

I was just reading... Chipotle, they had so much turnover that they've been able to observe in their stores that their productivity has gone down significantly, and it's because people haven't been there long enough to know how to make the food quickly enough. And it's like, "What ingredient goes into this one?" And so, people are frustrated, 因为他们想进去又想出来, 这是因为大量的人员流动. So if it's happening in Chipotle, it's happening everywhere. You just can't afford to be without talented people, and you don't need the instability of having people quit because you have the wrong culture. So, I think the great resignation is going to quit along those lines, and CEOs and senior managers are going to be really smart to say, "This is the moment in time where we're going to really commit to creating an environment where people want to belong."


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